ID Request - Mystery Green Plant

[StluciaMike]

We have this plant growing in St. Lucia in the Caribbean.  It is a tropical shrub that is about 8 feet tall and about 3 feet wide.  It has been growing for over 20 years.  It has woody branches and a unique shaped all green lacey type leaf.  I took some woody stem cuttings after trimming it and it started growing new leaves within days. The locals on the island believe that it is a type of croton, however I have not been able to find anything that comes close.  I have attached photos.  Any input or ideas would be very much appreciated!

Edited July 14, 2023 by StluciaMike
update

[Merlyn]

Google reverse images search says it is a Rhus Typhina "Tiger Eyes" or "Bailtiger" aka a Cutleaf Staghorn Sumac.

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Google reverse images search says it is a Rhus Typhina "Tiger Eyes" or "Bailtiger" aka a Cutleaf Staghorn Sumac.

Google reverse 🤣

Similar look but leaves on the mystery plant are glossy, arrangement is different also. Highly doubt a deciduous Rhus sp. would be grown anywhere in the Caribbean, esp in the Windward Islands.   Am thinking it may fall somewhere in one or two Orders, one which Sumacs are part of, Sapindales,   ...That or maybe within the Euphorbiaceae  section of  Malpighiales  though.

Curious if it ever flowers/ sets fruit ..what they might look like.   Bleed a latex sap, or clear?  ..Foliage have any sort of foul-ish odor or none detectable when cut / crushed?

[Merlyn]

@Silas_Sancona I scanned the first couple of photos, and they looked pretty close.  I mean...those leaves and the draping form are really close!

https://www.homenursery.com/plant/Rhus-typhina-Tiger-Eyes

https://www.treetop-nursery.com/plants/sumac-tiger-eyes-cutleaf/sumac-tiger-eye-foliage/

https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/260018/

[Silas_Sancona]

12 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Silas_Sancona I scanned the first couple of photos, and they looked pretty close.  I mean...those leaves and the draping form are really close!

https://www.homenursery.com/plant/Rhus-typhina-Tiger-Eyes

https://www.treetop-nursery.com/plants/sumac-tiger-eyes-cutleaf/sumac-tiger-eye-foliage/

https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/260018/

Have worked with / sold this plant  in CA, Ohio, and KS.. Similar look,  ..but not it. 

[StluciaMike]

56 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Silas_Sancona I scanned the first couple of photos, and they looked pretty close.  I mean...those leaves and the draping form are really close!

https://www.homenursery.com/plant/Rhus-typhina-Tiger-Eyes

https://www.treetop-nursery.com/plants/sumac-tiger-eyes-cutleaf/sumac-tiger-eye-foliage/

https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/260018/

Merlyn

Thank you for the follow up and looking into it, much appreciated!  I have several Rhus Typhina  here in Chicago.  The leaf is very very similar, however there are some differences which makes me think it is not a Rhus Typhina .  The structure of the branches is very uniform and in a vase shape where the sumac can have very wild and random growing branches.  The plant i sent photos of also does not flower at all. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by StluciaMike
update

[StluciaMike]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Google reverse 🤣

Similar look but leaves on the mystery plant are glossy, arrangement is different also. Highly doubt a deciduous Rhus sp. would be grown anywhere in the Caribbean, esp in the Windward Islands.   Am thinking it may fall somewhere in one or two Orders, one which Sumacs are part of, Sapindales,   ...That or maybe within the Euphorbiaceae  section of  Malpighiales  though.

Curious if it ever flowers/ sets fruit ..what they might look like.   Bleed a latex sap, or clear?  ..Foliage have any sort of foul-ish odor or none detectable when cut / crushed?

Silas

Thank you for the follow up!  This plant does not flower or provide any fruit.  I was trimming the more woody stems of it a few weeks ago, from what I recall there was no sap, at least from the thicker stems.  The foliage does not have any noticeable sent or order when cut or crushed.  The leaf is very similar to the Rhus Typhina , however the structure of the shrub itself is much more uniform and also it does not flower. 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, StluciaMike said:

Silas

Thank you for the follow up!  This plant does not flower or provide any fruit.  I was trimming the more woody stems of it a few weeks ago, from what I recall there was no sap, at least from the thicker stems.  The foliage does not have any noticeable sent or order when cut or crushed.  The leaf is very similar to the Rhus Typhina , however the structure of the shrub itself is much more uniform and also it does not flower. 

 🤔  To reproduce, it would have to do -something- ..at some point during the year / it's life cycle..    Maybe let it go / don't trim for awhile and see what it does?? 

Any other specimens of it in other yards / native / disturbed areas near where your garden is?    This one is a bit perplexing,  and fascinating, lol 

 I'm going to keep working down a list of various families that may have Genus / sp. w/ a similar leaf structure, but, You might have to e-mail one of the major Botanical Gardens that have done a lot of botanical work in the tropics / Caribbean, like Fairchild, or maybe  even Kew..

[Silas_Sancona]

40 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 🤔  To reproduce, it would have to do -something- ..at some point during the year / it's life cycle..    Maybe let it go / don't trim for awhile and see what it does?? 

Any other specimens of it in other yards / native / disturbed areas near where your garden is?    This one is a bit perplexing,  and fascinating, lol 

 I'm going to keep working down a list of various families that may have Genus / sp. w/ a similar leaf structure, but, You might have to e-mail one of the major Botanical Gardens that have done a lot of botanical work in the tropics / Caribbean, like Fairchild, or maybe  even Kew..

I might have found it...

Appears to be some form of Polyscias fruticosa..  *** Edit ***  or Polyscias cumingiana


Species detail: https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/284560-Polyscias-fruticosa

A couple observations exhibiting similar looking foliage :

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/102200328

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/62149946

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/44090028


P. cumingiana:

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/327290-Polyscias-cumingiana




Regardless, is an introduced sp.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Silas_Sancona
edit to add possible species

[Merlyn]

@Silas_Sancona yep, Ming Aralia looks like it!  There are a bunch of leaf shapes, but several look exactly like it.  So weird that the scalloped leaves look so much like the immature sumac!

[StluciaMike]

3 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I might have found it...

Appears to be some form of Polyscias fruticosa..  *** Edit ***  or Polyscias cumingiana


Species detail: https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/284560-Polyscias-fruticosa

A couple observations exhibiting similar looking foliage :

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/102200328

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/62149946

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/44090028


P. cumingiana:

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/327290-Polyscias-cumingiana




Regardless, is an introduced sp.

This certainly looks like it 100%, Thank you so much for figuring this out for me!